tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post2719134722409816599..comments2023-08-07T16:41:49.660+02:00Comments on Die Klimazwiebel: Lisbon revisited 1923 - 2011 (in Portugues, German and English)eduardohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17725131974182980651noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-87142197477127741742011-02-06T00:01:02.228+01:002011-02-06T00:01:02.228+01:00Did the workshop on reconciliation take place in L...Did the workshop on reconciliation take place in Lisbon or just in a no-place? Does this matter? Would the discussions have been different in Rome or Nairobi?Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-51895736222893037272011-02-05T23:41:30.386+01:002011-02-05T23:41:30.386+01:00How are the images of the rivers related to climat...How are the images of the rivers related to climate change? Rivers are, of course, an integral part of the city / village environment. Both Elbe and Tejo are environmentally endangered through pollution, and both are tidal rivers - on the one hand highly domesticated, constructed and manipulated, on the other hand sensitive to to changes or extreme natural events such as storm floods, sea level rise, tsunamis (Tejo) etc. <br />Environmental pollution, climate change and possible effects do not happen in an abstract world; no one lives 'on the globe' and in 'average weather'; instead, climate change has to be localized. It takes place somewhere, in places, in locales. The Tejo in Portugal and its history and destiny and people, and the river Elbe and its history and its destiny and its people are not abstract entities. <br />You cannot clean an abstract river or protect an abstract vulnerable river environment. How to attach the Tejo and the Elbe to the abstract concept of climate change? <br />Maybe in climate science it is necessary to emancipate yourself from the histories and feelings; but when you want to make climate change real, you have to attach it, to connect it to real places. <br />We need more images of vulnerable areas, and we need more images of climate. Climate images - is this possible? How do climate images or images of the climate look like?Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-69516540317642357692011-02-05T23:23:33.328+01:002011-02-05T23:23:33.328+01:00Flussbilder - Images of the river, river of images...Flussbilder - Images of the river, river of images:<br /><br />The previous posts, comments and poems about the Tejo, not the Tejo, the river in the village, the river Elbe, and a poster displaying the Tejo show a variety of attitudes towards and images of the phenomenon river.<br /><br />Alvaro do Campos:<br />"Oh blue sky - the same as in my childhood-,<br />Eternal truth empty and perfect!<br />Oh soft Tagus ancestral and silent, <br />Small truth wherein the sky is reflected!"<br />But to Lisbon, to modernity, the world, he feels different:<br />"Oh grief revisited, oh Lisbon of times past of today!"<br /><br />Alberto Caeiro:<br />"But the Tejo isn’t more beautiful than the river that flows through my village,<br />Because the Tejo isn’t the river that flows through my village."<br /><br />and about 'his' river in his village:<br />"The river of my village doesn’t make you think about anything.<br />When you’re at its bank you’re only at its bank."<br /><br />Hans von Storch about the Tejo:<br />"after having been on the Tejo, on board of a ferry without an opportunity to go outside, I must say that I prefer the Elbe."<br /><br />and about the Elbe:<br />"When standing on the bank, you are not only standing on the bank, you are also facing Southern Germany and enjoy the good feeling of being not there. Also, the Elbe is not originating from Spain."<br /><br />and what does he feel?<br />"Wonderful feeling - being right, and the others wrong. But I will not tell anybody."<br /><br />Werner Krauss imagines Portuguese attitudes' towards the Tejo:<br />"The Portuguese people, it is said, stand at the shore and look out on the sea, to the horizon, and dream. Now they dream at the shores of a cleaner river. The river Tejo is discursive, it is a discourse. It is not just a river."<br /><br />and his own attitude, consequently not about the Tejo, but a poster with a photograph of the Tejo:<br />"This poem (Alberto Caeiro's) came to my mind when I first saw the poster of the city council about the water quality improvement of the river Tejo. I looked the poem up on the Internet and learned it by heart. I loved to run into the poster WITH this poem in my mind. I see nothing but administrations, debates among scientists, corruption, failure and (hopefully) slight improvement, when I see ONLY the poster. But with the poem in mind, it's different."<br /><br />the Camara municipal (the city council) about the Tejo:<br />""New year, New Tejo: The Fate / Destiny (Fado) of the Tejo changed! All sewages of the city are flowing with treatment into the river."<br /><br />and Hans von Storch as the advisor of the city council / port authority of Hamburg about the Elbe:<br /><br />"And we have done work on the changing hydrodynamics of this wonderful divide between us and them. (...) The Elbe is already a hydrodynamically superior environment for long waves to pass through, tides as well as storm surges."<br /><br />Poetry of Engineers: The 'Fado' of the Tejo, the Elbe as 'the wonderful divide between us and them'.<br /><br />etc.Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-39177614226373732712011-02-04T18:37:21.322+01:002011-02-04T18:37:21.322+01:00And then, seeing Hamburg-Süd containers in Suva an...And then, seeing Hamburg-Süd containers in Suva and Singapore ... Looking forward for the short trip with Cap San Diego in March. On the same divide ... Think of our old project, Bilder der Küste, Küstenbilder.The multitude of these images.Hans von Storchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778028673130006646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-54102413880848822482011-02-04T18:29:59.898+01:002011-02-04T18:29:59.898+01:00I have to admit, you seem to be a happy man at the...I have to admit, you seem to be a happy man at the banks of the river Elbe. The river and its domestication in the name of capitalistic interests are accurately tested and under scientific control; Northern climate determinism with a touch of ethnic prejudice warms your weary heart, while gigantic ships packed with Hamburg Süd containers roll down the Elbe river to their destination in South America or China. What a lovely and peaceful picture that is! Pssst, don't disturb...Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-30983237074936477362011-02-04T18:07:01.070+01:002011-02-04T18:07:01.070+01:00Do not worry, Werner, I have been part of such deb...Do not worry, Werner, I have been part of such debates. And we have done work on the changing hydrodynamics of this wonderful divide between us and them.<br />The big chance took place in earlier years; another deepening is not longer causing significant changes. The Elbe is already a hydrodynamically superior environment for long waves to pass through, tides as well as storm surges. I takes one hour less by now from Cuxhaven to St. Pauli - this happened in the two decades 1960-1980, about.<br /><br />See: von Storch, H., G. Gönnert, and M. Meine, 2008: Storm surges – an option for Hamburg, Germany, to mitigate expected future aggravation of risk. Env. Sci. Pol. 11: 735-742Hans von Storchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778028673130006646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-75449148973329522612011-02-04T17:43:45.486+01:002011-02-04T17:43:45.486+01:00Well, this wonderful feeling might soon be disturb...Well, this wonderful feeling might soon be disturbed when they will ask your advice concerning the next round of making the Elbe deeper (Elbvertiefung). How will climate change influence the Elbe tide, and what are the consequences for preparing the Elbe artificially for the new generation of container ships? Economy versus ecology, business versus vulnerability, risk management etc etc.<br /> Your skeptical friends will shout "hee lücht" when you will raise your moderate concerns, your alarmist colleagues will excommunicate you, and everybody will agree upon the battle cry: "Alle wolln dasselbe, Hans muss in die Elbe" (let's drown him in the Elbe). You wished to be someplace else, for example Southern Germany or at the banks of the Tejo. Let me know when you seek asylum, poor man from the Elbe banks. I know a river that does not originate in - ehem - does the Elbe originate from somewhere? Or is it just there, in Hamburg? No idea, I come from the South....Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-59200767877599969022011-02-04T16:26:00.632+01:002011-02-04T16:26:00.632+01:00Werner,
after having been on the Tejo, on board o...Werner,<br /><br />after having been on the Tejo, on board of a ferry without an opportunity to go outside, I must say that I prefer the Elbe. When standing on the bank, you are not only standing on the bank, you are also facing Southern Germany and enjoy the good feeling of being not there. Also, the Elbe is not originating from Spain. <br /><br />A comment not really relevant for the climate issue, true, but the northern climate (Northern Hemisphere) has certainly a very beneficial impact. The clear and sometimes stormy winter weather allows me to understand even better that skeptics and alarmists are wrong and I am right. Wonderful feeling - being right, and the others wrong. But I will not tell anybody.Hans von Storchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778028673130006646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-5595955890714419132011-02-04T16:09:14.289+01:002011-02-04T16:09:14.289+01:00XX
The Tejo is more beautiful than the river that...XX<br /><br />The Tejo is more beautiful than the river that flows through my village,<br />But the Tejo isn’t more beautiful than the river that flows through my village,<br />Because the Tejo isn’t the river that flows through my village.<br /><br />The Tejo has big boats<br />And there navigates in it still,<br />For those who see what’s not there in everything,<br />The memory of fleets.<br /><br />The Tejo runs down from Spain<br />And the Tejo goes into the sea in Portugal.<br />Everybody knows that.<br />But not many people know the river of my village<br />And where it comes from<br />And where it’s going.<br />And so, because it belongs to less people,<br />The river of my village is freer and greater.<br /><br />Through the Tejo you go to the World.<br />Beyond the Tejo is America<br />And the fortune you encounter there.<br />Nobody ever thinks about what’s beyond<br />The river of my village.<br /><br />The river of my village doesn’t make you think about anything.<br />When you’re at its bank you’re only at its bank.Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-86828104000938374132011-02-04T16:01:12.530+01:002011-02-04T16:01:12.530+01:00XX - O Tejo é mais Belo
O Tejo é mais belo que o ...XX - O Tejo é mais Belo<br /><br />O Tejo é mais belo que o rio que corre pela minha aldeia,<br />Mas o Tejo não é mais belo que o rio que corre pela minha aldeia<br />Porque o Tejo não é o rio que corre pela minha aldeia.<br /><br /><br />O Tejo tem grandes navios<br />E navega nele ainda,<br />Para aqueles que vêem em tudo o que lá não está,<br />A memória das naus.<br /><br /><br />O Tejo desce de Espanha<br />E o Tejo entra no mar em Portugal.<br />Toda a gente sabe isso.<br />Mas poucos sabem qual é o rio da minha aldeia<br />E para onde ele vai<br />E donde ele vem.<br />E por isso porque pertence a menos gente,<br />É mais livre e maior o rio da minha aldeia.<br /><br /><br />Pelo Tejo vai-se para o Mundo.<br />Para além do Tejo há a América<br />E a fortuna daqueles que a encontram.<br /><br /><br />Ninguém nunca pensou no que há para além<br />Do rio da minha aldeia.<br /><br /><br />O rio da minha aldeia não faz pensar em nada.<br />Quem está ao pé dele está só ao pé dele.Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-70454645793096048832011-02-04T15:58:43.929+01:002011-02-04T15:58:43.929+01:00Please have another look at the poster of the city...Please have another look at the poster of the city council of Lisbon that I posted above: It states that the Fado (here:destiny) of the Tejo (Tagus) has changed through renewal of the sewage system; in the new year, the river is clean(er). Great news, great picture. But the river Tejo is not only an ecosystem which is to be protected. Starting from the Tejo, once the Portuguese conquered the world. From here, you can reach America, where you can make a fortune. The Portuguese people, it is said, stand at the shore and look out on the sea, to the horizon, and dream. Now they dream at the shores of a cleaner river. The river Tejo is discursive, it is a discourse. It is not just a river. Can there be something like 'just a river'?<br /><br />Alberto Caeiro (who is just another heteronym of Fernando Pessoa) analyzed this problem in a beautiful poem. <br />He compares the beauty of the river Tejo with the beauty of the river in his village. He comes to a first conclusion that the river in his village is more beautiful because the river Tejo is NOT the river that flows through his village. <br />In the next stanza, he lists all those marvelous things and accomplishments that are related with the name of Tejo (some of them I listed above). Nothing of that can be told about the nameless river in his village. Few people only know where this river comes from and where it ends.<br /><br />Thus, the final conclusion is:<br />When you stand at the shore of the river in his village, you stand at the shore of the river of this village. Nothing else.<br /><br />This poem came to my mind when I first saw the poster of the city council about the water quality improvement of the river Tejo. I looked the poem up on the Internet and learned it by heart. I loved to run into the poster WITH this poem in my mind. I see nothing but administrations, debates among scientists, corruption, failure and (hopefully) slight improvement, when I see ONLY the poster. But with the poem in mind, it's different. How? Not sure yet. You get my point?<br />Next comment you will get the Portuguese and the English version of the poem.Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-75850145763312228932011-02-02T10:54:12.702+01:002011-02-02T10:54:12.702+01:00Why this poem? It illustrates perfectly that there...Why this poem? It illustrates perfectly that there is not only a 'war' going on inside the sciences, but also a more profound one, an ontological war. <br />How to reconcile the sky of the poet's childhood, which is reflected in the river Tejo, with the rio Tejo as the object of restoration or conservation measures by the City Council of Lisbon? Is this the same river? Are the childhood river and the river as an ecosystem related?<br />How to reconcile the optimism inherent in science / ecology with the insight that death is the only real conclusion?<br />And finally, how to deal with those people who just don't want to be part of this struggle? Who shrug their shoulders and walk away? Who prefer to be left alone? Who 'prefer not to', just as Bartleby in Melville's novel? <br />According to the French philosopher Gilles Deleuze, this 'idiot' is a 'conceptual persona'; the scientist should accept that the idiot has a look over his / her shoulder, asks strange questions and reminds the scientist that there might be something more important at stake.<br /><br />Both the scientist and the poet observe and describe the world we inhabit with scrutiny. We don't know which reality is more real, the scientific or the poetic one, and how they relate. I have no doubt that we need both the poetics and the science of the climate in order to grasp the full reality of the rio Tejo and the sky above.Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.com