tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post1033722024158649650..comments2023-08-07T16:41:49.660+02:00Comments on Die Klimazwiebel: It's the snow in Siberia, stupid or: Jump on the jetstream, babyeduardohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17725131974182980651noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-62410460649483417932011-01-10T09:39:24.187+01:002011-01-10T09:39:24.187+01:00There are already so many Vogons in the IPCC (not ...There are already so many Vogons in the IPCC (not the one on poetics, the other one).Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-45592003566324568872011-01-09T23:15:04.056+01:002011-01-09T23:15:04.056+01:00@Werner
I beg to differ!
Excluding the Vogons sm...@Werner<br /><br />I beg to differ!<br /><br />Excluding the Vogons smells of specism. Wo don´t want to be non-PC, do we?<br /><br />Also, the Vogons have a straightforward way of deailing with poetry deniers: out of the spacecraft at 1.5c will teach you!Rainer Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-54737459847282730072011-01-09T10:31:30.874+01:002011-01-09T10:31:30.874+01:00Thanks, Rainer S., we indeed have to set high stan...Thanks, Rainer S., we indeed have to set high standards (Richard Tol is already assessing our assessment criteria!). This here is non-official: we have to keep the Vogons out of the commission (they produce the third-worst poetry of the universe, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogon)Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-46638889161692315542011-01-09T05:02:52.607+01:002011-01-09T05:02:52.607+01:00You sure that the "I" is for "Inter...You sure that the "I" is for "Intergovernmental"? Could mean "Interdisciplinary", or so.Hans von Storchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778028673130006646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-66479147961089632552011-01-08T18:10:06.202+01:002011-01-08T18:10:06.202+01:00Do not forget to involve NGOs in the review proces...Do not forget to involve NGOs in the review process. They have already set up standards not to be ignored:<br /><br />http://www.verybadpoetry.com/Rainer Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-37184636280929531872011-01-08T16:28:47.190+01:002011-01-08T16:28:47.190+01:00Reiner, the Intergovernmental Poetry Commission on...Reiner, the Intergovernmental Poetry Commission on Climate change is a spiritual body. Poets of great merit review and assess the most recent poems produced by poets worldwide relevant to the understanding of climate change. Review is an essential part of the IPCC process, to ensure an objective and complete assessment of current poetry. IPCC aims to reflect a range of views and expertise on poetics of climate change. The Secretariat of disembodied poetics coordinates all the IPCC work and liaises with Governments.Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-54891827382731333262011-01-08T11:48:24.255+01:002011-01-08T11:48:24.255+01:00Werner,
will the decision be based on politics or ...Werner,<br />will the decision be based on politics or poetics?@ReinerGrundmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12759452975366986236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-47630833362172245922011-01-08T09:19:36.812+01:002011-01-08T09:19:36.812+01:00The Intergovernmental Poetry Commission on Climate...The Intergovernmental Poetry Commission on Climate appreciates the latest blog entries and will decide soon whose rhymes are finer, those of Rainer or those of Reiner!Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-28967024444754612442011-01-08T09:19:36.226+01:002011-01-08T09:19:36.226+01:00The Intergovernmental Poetry Commission on Climate...The Intergovernmental Poetry Commission on Climate appreciates the latest blog entries and will decide soon whose rhymes are finer, those of Rainer or those of Reiner!Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-20304975629104052312011-01-07T21:06:22.488+01:002011-01-07T21:06:22.488+01:00Because of the overwhelming success, here is just ...Because of the overwhelming success, here is just one more:<br /><br />At Penn State there once was a man<br />Who said to himself "Yes, I can"<br />So he thought of some tricks<br />And produced hockey sticks<br />To brings us a fossile fuel banRainer Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-77681277772564404222011-01-07T20:02:44.169+01:002011-01-07T20:02:44.169+01:00One who seeks will find
Climate change rhymes with...One who seeks will find<br />Climate change rhymes with strange<br />Climate catastrophe rhymes with apostrophe<br />But what sense does it make<br />To take the possessive “s” away from a noun<br />That is not well defined?@ReinerGrundmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12759452975366986236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-74860132459012721372011-01-07T16:34:40.729+01:002011-01-07T16:34:40.729+01:00In a town near mighty Berlin
The PIK claimed the s...In a town near mighty Berlin<br />The PIK claimed the science was in<br />This winter´s shock<br />They explained post-hoc<br />Kicking common sense in the shin<br /><br /><br />ok, ok, I´m no Goethe...Rainer Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-57978863240224862122011-01-07T15:41:34.593+01:002011-01-07T15:41:34.593+01:00@Werner,
didn´t you know poetry has to rhyme :-)
...@Werner,<br /><br />didn´t you know poetry has to rhyme :-)<br /><br />There once was a scientist in Dunn<br />Who foretold winters soon to be gone<br />Then he was covered by sleet<br />Up to a height of ten feet<br />To be a scientist is not only funRainer Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-13107836468478785762011-01-07T00:32:53.139+01:002011-01-07T00:32:53.139+01:00@ 31 Werner,
no, I am not arguing for 'techno...@ 31 Werner,<br /><br />no, I am not arguing for 'technological blogs', quite the contrary. I was observing the average behavior of the blog commenters - of course, the average is sometimes not a good description.<br /><br />I try to flip the coin and imagine that all this controversial issue would be something in which I dont have much expertise, say stem cells for instance. If I really want to know more about stem cells, I think I would tend to pose more comments and questions to the technological entries, not exclusively, but indeed more frequently. I wonder why this is not the case. Perhaps because we all have a predetermined opinion and it is more fun to score political points. <br /><br />Conclusion: appeal to technological/scientific knowledge is not very effective. Only a a few will benefit from it, but only those that are not interested in propaganda <br /><br /><br /><br />Poetry will never be a mass genre, sorry Werner..eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17725131974182980651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-57026070474215352011-01-06T23:30:41.693+01:002011-01-06T23:30:41.693+01:00Eduardo #30
technological blogs, of course, exclud...Eduardo #30<br />technological blogs, of course, exclude those non-technology folk. They just don't understand, maybe?<br />And everybody likes controversies, I agree. Sounds like fun.<br /><br />But isn't opposing these different issues tricky? Do you want to make an argument in favor of technology over politics? This is an ideology itself, I guess. Technology substitutes politics - the list of failures is long, very long, Eduardo. <br /><br />And concerning your doctor example: Al Gore made that before. He was wrong. You have to go to different doctors to make up your mind, because no doctor is free of an ideological and economic context. In the end, you have to make the decision on the basis of "informed uncertainty" - surgery or conservative cure? Antibiotics or staying longer in bed? Love or divorce? Geo-engineering or emission reduction or both? Ride a bike or not? <br /><br />Of course, in general your observation concerning the weblogs is right. But in my (not validated) experience folks here on klimazwiebel like these endless debates on things technological. But there is not one comment on my delicate poetry!!!! Why does no one discuss the poetics of climate change? No one except me! Not even Judith Curry! Not even my doctor knows why that is!Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-77770056476250254082011-01-06T22:40:38.935+01:002011-01-06T22:40:38.935+01:00@23
Werner wrote
'Propaganda or not - you kno...@23<br /><br />Werner wrote<br />'Propaganda or not - you know what the intention is. If you want to raise alarm, you need propaganda. If you want to deny the problem, you need propaganda, too.'<br /><br />among all stakeholders, who is not interested in propaganda ? I think these would be the persons that are truly interested in knowing more to then be able to take informed decisions. If you have a medical problem that requires action, the least you would wish are doctors that try to pitch particular interests, either economical or ideological. You would really wish neutral, technical and to-the-point information , including all possible uncertainties and certainties. However, it seems that in the climate discussion the opposite occurs more often. Judith Curry <a href="http://judithcurry.com/2010/12/31/climate-etc-s-greatest-hits-for-2010/" rel="nofollow">just made the observation</a> that more technical weblogs that took her more time to prepare are the ones that elicit a smaller number of comments and questions, whereas the more controversial entries, just written in a few minutes but with high political content, trigger the largest number of comments. On a smaller scale, this can be observed also here at the Klimazwiebel.eduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17725131974182980651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-59314434101682816382011-01-06T17:41:48.262+01:002011-01-06T17:41:48.262+01:00@anonymous °26
Do you remember the very warm wint...@anonymous °26<br /><br />Do you remember the very warm winter some years ago. No wind from the north could change anything. <br /><br />And we must remember that heavy snow did let the alpine glaciers grow during the cold periods during the Little icage. Where did the moisture come from then?<br /><br />I think that the weather patterns in our countries did really change since about 1990. Maybe they are changing again. Even if the summers were really very warm the last decades, one must admit that we also didn't have much snow in the Alps during the cold winters.<br /><br />YephAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-17237529792104208562011-01-06T17:32:09.164+01:002011-01-06T17:32:09.164+01:00Dear Hans, Dear Werner,
The latest news tell us t...Dear Hans, Dear Werner,<br /><br />The latest news tell us that the warming didn't stop and that 2010 was as warm as 1998. <br /><br />There are so many reasons to change our ways that imho we don't need to oversell climate science. And I think that many activists are to pessimistic about what we can achieve in the next 20 years.<br /><br />Even the most fanatic highway king will sooner or later notice the rising oil prices and he will be happy to drive an electric car fueled by "sahara eletrics". ;-)<br /><br />Thank you all very much for your kind comments. <br /><br />YephAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-23409694977061270242011-01-06T17:19:56.391+01:002011-01-06T17:19:56.391+01:00Climategate correspondent Grant Foster aka Tamino ...Climategate correspondent Grant Foster aka Tamino proposed a falsification test for global warming a few years ago. Still 15 years left for certainty.<br /><br />But he uses GISS, and given the apparent recent divergence from the other datasets we can argue forever!<br /><br />http://web.archive.org/web/20080409021707/tamino.wordpress.com/2008/01/31/you-bet/<br /><br />Kind regards, your Irish debtor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-87362281314203026492011-01-05T21:03:24.485+01:002011-01-05T21:03:24.485+01:00Judas Cohen says that more water wapors in the air...Judas Cohen says that more water wapors in the air due to global warming make more snow, covering Northern Hemisphere and cooling it. <br />Hmmm - but the air then must be cold first, otherwise we would have heavy rains, instead of heavy show. <br />So back to the point one - why is it now so cold by all that global warming?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-67949776969166948332011-01-05T18:07:36.049+01:002011-01-05T18:07:36.049+01:00@Werner Kraus,
nach allem, was ich bisher las, ha...@Werner Kraus,<br /><br />nach allem, was ich bisher las, handelt es sich bei den Alarmisten/Skeptikern nicht um Dichotomie. So wie ich es jetzt sehe, bestreitet keiner eine Erwärmung seit der letzten kleinen Eiszeit, es geht nur um die Höhe und die Ursache? Eine kleine Schnittmenge ist also da? Jeder propagiert seine Meinung, die Frage ist, wie sehr wird die Erkenntnis dahinter dabei manipuliert.<br />Wie ich <a href="http://www.weltwoche.ch/onlineexklusiv/details/article/klimaketzerin-gebodigt.html" rel="nofollow">hier</a> las hat die Royal Society ihre Leitlinien zum Thema Klimawandel angepasst.<br />Wie heißt das Pendant in Deutschland und hat es Leitlinien?<br /><br />Ich hoffe auf die Wissenschaft, von mir aus a la Merton;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-23848804771084679592011-01-05T17:14:56.844+01:002011-01-05T17:14:56.844+01:00"...Feinberg and his colleague Robb Willer, a..."...Feinberg and his colleague Robb Willer, also at Berkeley, asked 45 online participants ".<br /><br />45 Participants doesn´t sound like great statistics. Quite daring to base a claim about correlation between world view ("just world") and attitudes reg. AGW on such a sample size.<br /><br />Anyway,dire predictions DO backfire, simple because they as yet failed to materialize. Locking at my private "sample" - certainly larger than 45 - scaremongering is what virtually creates some sort of sceptics. And the ones I know definitely don´t think the world is just - whatever that is supposed to mean.Rainer Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-30495782982259299242011-01-05T16:57:15.640+01:002011-01-05T16:57:15.640+01:00@Hans 22
Sorry for that. It was not my intention t...@Hans 22<br />Sorry for that. It was not my intention to identify you with the nature article! But it looks like, I agree. I should be more careful.<br /><br />@anonymous 21<br />Propaganda or not - you know what the intention is. If you want to raise alarm, you need propaganda. If you want to deny the problem, you need propaganda, too. If you prefer the middle ground, you also need propaganda. There is no neutral zone. This does not mean that science is impossible. It only means that it is not outside of the alarmist / skeptical dichotomy.<br /><br /><br />Maybe I should stick with writing bad poetry.Werner Krausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15094636819952421339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-59279726499317411152011-01-05T14:48:46.782+01:002011-01-05T14:48:46.782+01:00Anonymous - I have no problem if you call it "...Anonymous - I have no problem if you call it "Propaganda", but I would prefer to not to do.<br />Werner - I mostly agree, but I found your comment on the nature article, with a direct reference to me, not fully fair.Hans von Storchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778028673130006646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216971263350849959.post-63548751090246787782011-01-05T14:22:36.116+01:002011-01-05T14:22:36.116+01:00Hans von Storch,
entschuldigen Sie meine Direkthei...Hans von Storch,<br />entschuldigen Sie meine Direktheit und meine Anonymität. Ich kann keinen Konflikt vermeiden, von dem ich erst seit wenigen Wochen Kenntnis habe.<br />Da "draußen" gibt es jede Menge Leute die z.B.<a href="http://www.faz.net/s/RubCF3AEB154CE64960822FA5429A182360/Doc~EACFAE80F096B41CAA86E43EE8D641962~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html" rel="nofollow">Prof. Anders Levermann</a> glauben schenken, wenn ich mir die Lesermeinungen anschaue,muß man ein paar abziehen.<br />Bei mir hat er mittlerweile keinen "Aufrütteleffekt" mehr erzeugt, höchstens Schüttelfrost.<br /><br />Also sage ich, ich habe den Eindruck, es sei Propaganda und lasse mich gerne vom Gegenteil überzeugen,denn ich habe noch zu wenig gelesen, um es zu wissen.<br /><br /><i>Propaganda bezeichnet einen absichtlichen und systematischen Versuch, Sichtweisen zu formen, Erkenntnisse zu manipulieren und Verhalten zu steuern, ...<br /></i> weiter in Wikipedia.<br /><br />Noch ein kleiner Aufrüttler:<br /><b>Die Wand, auf die wir zufahren, liegt im Nebel, aber sie ist da!</b> von Prof.Andreas Levermann aus seinem Artikel in der FAZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com