Monday, May 3, 2010

Climategate revisited

spiegel-online posted today a review article about climategate:  'Forscherskandal. Heißer Krieg ums Klima'. Why today? No idea. Supposedly, they have read ALL the hacked emails. It's a strange mixture of hyped drama, information and sometimes interesting comments by the sociologist Peter Weingart. And it is in German.

14 comments:

Hans von Storch said...

More in German - two articles in Frankfurter Rundschau, which claim that the crisis of trust would have been constructed by the fossil fuel industry and the blogosphere.

http://www.fr-online.de/in_und_ausland/wissen_und_bildung/aktuell/?em_cnt=2596211&em_loc=1739

http://www.fr-online.de/in_und_ausland/wissen_und_bildung/extra_klimawandel/klimagipfel_in_kopenhagen/2600452_Klimawandel-Die-Wahrheit-ueber-Fehler-des-Klimarats.html

I do not share this view. It is not that easy.

ghost said...

@Prof von Storch

of course, it is not that easy, but fact is, you can trace most skeptical claims directly to certain blogs, US politicians, and US think tanks or their international branches. If you speak to a skeptic, he/she will almost certainly parrot the first 5 entries of Watts blog or so and then start to typical skeptic bingo with all the boring crap. I mean, for example: they say, GISSTEMP uses the baseline 1951-1980 because that looks scarier... you can explain it to them why they use this baseline, why using anomalies, show them the source code!!!, but no way. I cannot even understand this behavior... mostly, these persons have even a better education than I have and are much smarter, but still.

Furthermore, you can trace practically all skeptic scientists of North America to any of the US rightwing/libertarian think tanks: for example: http://www.marshall.org/speakers.php this list speaks for itself.

The real question for your science direction is, at least for me: how could it happen that many skeptic claims, that are mostly really weak and bizarre, could gain so much weight.

_Flin_ said...

The article shows at least as much about the current state of the german media as it shows about Climategate. Why? Because they printed all the E-Mails. Aren't people like these called "Internetausdrucker" (freely translated: printerneters) in Germany?

Anonymous said...

@Ghost,
So you have discussed with sceptics who have used bad arguments? So what?

That does not address the good sceptic arguments:

1. The hockey stick debacle shows that the IPCC WG1 have presented a biased argument about paleoclimate.

2. On a number of issues the IPCC report (ie storm activity) presents only small bias, but IPCC WG1 top representatives exaggerates these issues wildly in public, and the press adds to that bias.

3. WG 2 and 3 routinely only adress negative impacts, almost never positive impacts.

In summary, they have been trying to "present a nice tidy story" and have therefore lost my trust.

Jonas B1

Anonymous said...

Only two days before, I read that a 22 year old student in the US is supposed to be sentenced to 20 years prison because he hacked into Sarah Palins email account and copied a few very harmless emails from her. Some weeks ago, SPON was outraged that Chinese hacker stole emails from western journalists. Why I mention this? Because the so-called "climategate" story is based on materials from a bunch of criminal hackers with much more criminal energy than that student and who were probably paid for their crime. But in contrast to the Sarah Palin or other hackers, they are quoted by SPON and any other newspaper as a reliable source. No judge in the world would believe such evidence stolen by hackers. Only in so-called Climategate... I think, these double standards are telling more than enough about German media and their standards...

Werner Krauss said...

@ anonymous
I argued in a similar way here some time ago. It's disgusting. I think politically climategate stirred an important discussion with positive effects, but participating in it makes you feel dirty. In the long run, climategate will be remembered as an important step towards more effective climate politics. It will have helped to decouple climate science and climate politics, which is a good thing. It's the public interest that seems to be more important than the crime that caused climategate. One should ask the ethicist from the New York Time Magazine!

What about the investigations concerning climategate? Are there any news, who did it? I remember how well these emails were prepared for public use: just download the hacked emails and use the search function. Very professional. It would really be interesting to know - how much to you get in England for a crime like this?

@Flin - yep, immer ausdrucken (as long as it is someone else's printer, of course!)

Anonymous said...

But who started with that “climate fight”?
I just want to remind again, that we, simple Meteorologists and Physics where confronted with one part of AGW and their medial Propaganda many years ago.
Never ever sawn and gigantic Heating, Hockey sticks, Köln´s cathedral under water and so on.
Not to ignore Al Gores masterpiece, which is used in thousand schools to educate Climate Change for the next generation. But this movie only shows terrible scrap science, polemics and political disinformation about the Rep. Party. Then the Expert Rahmstorf comes along and pounds on accelerating heating and sea level rise and almost everybody asks: can anyone see this acceleration? Not even close, by the way.
Look at those thinks happened and still happen and don’t feel surprised if media and others begin to fight with the same methods against the so called consensus in near future an actual climate catastrophes.

LG, Gunnar

Anonymous said...

Werner Krauss asked with regard to the Spiegel Online articel: "Why today? No idea." I was surprised myself to see it top of the list while there were topics like the Oil Spill and the Greek Financial Crisis around.

Could the article be timed like this to come out at the same time as the so called "Petersberger Klimatreffen" which is supposed to prepare the Mexico climate summit? To somehow influence the Petersberger climate meeting? Just a thought...

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous#1
>> the so-called "climategate" story is based on materials from a bunch of criminal hackers

what makes you so sure that it was NOT an inside whistle blower who wouldn't go along with that unethical behaviour any longer???

Anonymous said...

guter Spiegel-Artikel, meine Herren! Gibt es noch so etwas Ähnliches auf Deutsch?

Pacific said...

It still not settled whether the These arguments 's all a gigantic red herring in order to cover up the manipulations of the AGW cabal.

The world according to Ghost; it's prefectly alright to quote from Unreal Climate, yet it's all a conspiracy to quote from Climate Audit.

facepalm said...

@#7, Gunnar: Well, thats a low. Celebrating the SPIEGEL for bashing scientists because of a title of (drum roll)... the SPIEGEL! Thats a bit of short-cicuit-logic.
The Cologne Cathedral 20m deep in water (i guess greenland + westantarctica worth of melting) was a good-selling headline for this "journal", but no science.

@#8 Anonymus: Yes, the SPIEGEL has a knack for carefully timed headlines against AGW.

Anonymous said...

Dear collegues,

DER SPIEGEL on climategate: Here is the English version!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,694484,00

best

Hans von Storch said...

I got this e-mail - on the English translation of the SPIEGEL article. Posting this mail here has no bearing on my personal opinion of the article, apart that it is worth to be discussed. - HvS

-----------------------------

Dear friends,

this article of DER SPIEGEL seems to be the most thoughtful analysis of climategate by now:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,694484,00.html

best
D